Topic: Trail condition at Croom (A lot of damage from the Enduro event)

[SamW]

I don't know if any of you have had a chance to ride Croom lately, but the recent Enduro event really put a hurten on some of the most scenic sections of our singletrack (blue trail North of Drunk Monkey). The trail was so tore up that it is nearly unrideable. Does anyone know if the Enduro people are gonna help with the restoration? This is a real tragedy, I sent Bob Wilcox an e-mail and I am sure he is already aware of the damage out there. I think we all agree that it is in our best interest to share the parks and our trails with other organizations, but this is ridiculous, these people shouldn't be allowed to use our trails if they are not gonna help restore the damage so that it can at least be riden.

[chisel]

they should not be allowed to ride those trails!

[Garry]

The enduro group were supposed to go in and fix the damage they did after the race.  With no one officially in charge of that area at Forestry right now some things get left unnoticed - but not by us!  :-)

The origianl plan was for the Enduro Club to go in and do repair after the race with SWAMP overseeing the work.  Obviously that did not happen.  Once the Asheville trip is over with, and trying to squeeze time in before the FTF, we will address the problems at Croom.

One step is for Forestry to appoint someone officially in charge.  Thanks for the heads up Sam!

[Garry]

they should not be allowed to ride those trails!

That is a tough call because they originally made a lot of those trails years ago before SWAMP started mountain bike trails.  So in one sense we are thankful for that.  But, times have changed.

The other is, with Florida's soil, shared use of the same trail does not work.  It doesn't work with motorcycles and it doesn't work with horses.  In some states it does, but in Florida, with our sandy soil, it does not.  That is what we are working on in order to get separate trails. 

We were well on our way of making that happen when the Forestry official at Croom left for another job. Now, once someone new gets appointed to that position full time, we can restart those discussions and hopefully get a workable solution for all of the user groups.

[Harvey]

I believe the '07 enduro wasn't allowed to happen because they didn't do the promised repair work after the '06 enduro. This might be one more nail in the coffin.

[SamW]

Part of the problem is that each Enduro rider is required to purchase a $50 permit per motorcycle plus a $15 "each participating day" fee. These monies are identified under the disguise that they are for "the environemental impact" of what the park will incure do to the damage from the motorcycle, when in reality they never are used for "environmental repair," but rather the monies are put into a "kitty" that is distributed to all of the parks which helps out the parks that mountain bikers, horse riders, and motocycle people never use.

Because the motorcycle people (this is just my oppinion), are charged a permit fee and they know that us mountain bikers are not (we basically ride for free), there is an attitude that they paid for that right to damage our trails and not have to repair them. They also know that we (SWAMP) volunteer man hours (we all appreciate the trail boss Bob Wilcox by the way), to build and maintain trails, but that still does not sway them to help out.

I believe the only solution is to build a new section of the blue trail (connecting Drunk Monkey to Sugar Mountain). There is just way to much damage on the old section----we need to just sacrifice that section that the Enduro people used to the motorcyclist.

We have every right to complain about what happened, but we all must remember that we desprately need this park and starting a fight with the motorcyclist will not help our situation. With the economy the way it is today, all budgets and we all could envision this thing getting out of hand and the park just kicking us out. I feel we should keep our concerns "low key," converse only internally and work with Bob Wilcox to design and build a new blue trail in that quadrant of the MTB park so that we can have a sucessfull and enjoyable Croom 35/50 event in February.

I know I am one to talk as I have not worked one single trail day at Croom, most of my 30 volunteer hours this year have been spent at Alafia, Boyette, and Wilderness. I will however, gladly volunteer to help Bob out with this new project because I really enjoy riding Croom, it is a gem for our club without a doubt. I encourage every member to ride this park, if you think your in shape from riding our other parks, just ride Croom for two hours on a weekend and you will see that Croom is a different animal that task the most athletic rider.

I will stay in contact with Bob and find out what a viable solution is to insure we have a decent trail to ride for the Croom 35/50 in February.

Peace out

[Garry]

I believe the '07 enduro wasn't allowed to happen because they didn't do the promised repair work after the '06 enduro. This might be one more nail in the coffin.

That was what I understood, but then the motocross folks threatened a lawsuit and were able to go in this year.  With the damage not repaired, like we believed it would not, maybe we can stand a little stronger on our issue of we maintain and repair our trails, they rape them and don't come back until the next year to do it again.

We're working on this.

[Garry]

Because the motorcycle people (this is just my oppinion), are charged a permit fee and they know that us mountain bikers are not (we basically ride for free), there is an attitude that they paid for that right to damage our trails and not have to repair them. They also know that we (SWAMP) volunteer man hours (we all appreciate the trail boss Bob Wilcox by the way), to build and maintain trails, but that still does not sway them to help out. This attitude is changing, and will change as we move forward with a workable solution to an age old problem.

I believe the only solution is to build a new section of the blue trail (connecting Drunk Monkey to Sugar Mountain). There is just way to much damage on the old section----we need to just sacrifice that section that the Enduro people used to the motorcyclist. Unfortunately building "rouge trails" does not make us any better than the problem that we are fighting to fix. The "only" solution is not the "only" one thought of.  We need to work as a team and together as user groups to have a plan that works.  If we keep fighting with each other and doing whatever we please it will only make the problem continue.  I am confident that we can work this out not under the radar, but in full view of the land managers and other user groups.

We have every right to complain about what happened, but we all must remember that we desprately need this park and starting a fight with the motorcyclist will not help our situation. With the economy the way it is today, all budgets and we all could envision this thing getting out of hand and the park just kicking us out. I feel we should keep our concerns "low key," converse only internally and work with Bob Wilcox to design and build a new blue trail in that quadrant of the MTB park so that we can have a sucessfull and enjoyable Croom 35/50 event in February. There is nothing to lose by keeping our concerns in the forefront. To converse only internally alienates others involved and keeps us where we are now - no cooperation between us. This will go beyond the Croom 50, so we need to fix the problem instead of "only" having to fight it all the time.

I will stay in contact with Bob and find out what a viable solution is to insure we have a decent trail to ride for the Croom 35/50 in February. The SWAMP Board is already doing this; that is part of what this club is about, trail advocacy and making it so we have legal trails available that are honored by the land managers; the very folks we befriend and work closely with to insure that we always have these types of trails to use.  If we start ignoring them on the property that they manage - where does that put us?

[Garry]

Anybody have comments or concerns that they would like to share with Forestry on the Croom trail conditions after the enduro?  Mid November they are going to have a meeting about it before the enduros plan another race - I think for January.  I believe this is the time to make our voice heard.

Last year the enduro was banned and our trails were in phenomenal shape throughout the rest of the year.  One race last month and they tore up sections of our trails. The enduro folks thought that they could fix it with a Bobcat, (if they came out to fix it at all.)  That just makes a softened trail wider.  With our Florida soils that just does not work, and they have their own trails to use anyway.

I will get an address to e-mail to and post it for ya'll.

Suggestion: make the letters non confrontational and describing of how you enjoy the trails and how the damage affects your enjoyment of a great asset that we have in this area of Florida.

[SandPine]

Gary,
May Frank (aka Redriderpro) can tell us for sure if they are planning another race/event on January.  If they do  have one, we can kiss goodbye about riding decent trails at from from Oct-May.  That would be due to the motorbike erotion, hunting season, and more motorbike damage in january, then dry season.  So we would be reduced to riding DECENT trails to five months only.  May-Sept.  That will really suck....  I love Croom.   Yes I know... mother croom always recovers.  Well that was with only one enduro per year.  Not two.

If they create they own trails totally separate then bike trails then okay.  Also, when they go in and mark the course, they have to stay completely off our trails.  Looks like they rode a lot on our trails when they were marking theirs even though they didn't use sections into theirs but they still used them to pre-ride for fun since they saw them.

[Garry]

My mistake; I was wrong. Their January race is West of the Croom track which is two seperate properties.

None the less I think, as many others do, that they should not be allowed on the Croom Mountain Bike Trails even once a year.  They don't go in and repair them afterwards.  And even when they do it still takes 6-8 months for the trails to be enjoyed again.

I am sending a letter to Division Of Forestry about this and encourage others to do so as well.  Simply stating to them our position of the trail damage, the volunteer time to go in and repair, and waiting 8 months for it to reach a state of enjoyable riding again.

They have 2600 acres of the motorcycle park.  That is even stated on the forestry's web site, so there is no reason for them to come over and destroy what we work so hard to have.

Send your displeasure - respectfully of course - to Lynn Bolton, boltonl at doacs dot state.fl.us

[Garry]

Forestry is planning a meeting November 6th about Croom Trail Maintenance and dual use of the mountain bike trails and the motorcycles.  If anyone has some talking points that they would like brought up now is the time to bring 'em up.  I'm going to do everything I can to be there and try to drag a few others with me.