Topic: Daily Diet - Training for Squiggy 6 Solo... and beyond!

[JasonD]

Does anyone have any suggestions about a good diet to match up with a daily riding program. I had done the body for life program, but I am burning WAY more calories as I train.

I have been trying to consume 2x as much carbs as protein, but I'm not sure if this makes sense. Any resources or recommendations would be super-appreciated!

[BeerCan]

you could try the paleo diet for athletes. (loren cordain and joe friel)  I used it last year getting ready for the sm100.  I lost 50 lbs and was in great shape.  In addition I did not rebound to bad after I went off it.

[JasonD]

Thanks BeerCan - I did a search and was blown away at all the info out there about this diet. Here's an intro if anyone is interested:

http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html

J

[BeerCan]

The version for athletes is a little different than that but pretty close.

[scooter]

No sweet potatoes? No grains? No dairy? Now you have gone to far! How about you just eat smart? Eat clean? Eat smaller meals more frequently. 5 or 6 smaller meals spread out thru the day works wonders versus the old 3 large portions we are so used to.

[Garry]

No sweet potatoes? No grains? No dairy? Now you have gone to far! How about you just eat smart? Eat clean? Eat smaller meals more frequently. 5 or 6 smaller meals spread out thru the day works wonders versus the old 3 large portions we are so used to.

Oh man, all those foods are good for you.  Scooter is right on - smaller portions more often.  Eat before you get hungry with a balance of lean meats, fresh veggies (sautéed or steamed), nuts, fruits, grains, better cheeses like Motzarella or Swiss, low fat milk, real fruit juices.  Read labels - limit sugars, high fructose corn syrup and anything overly high in calories.  Aim for 7-24 grams of protein per meal or snack.  There a lot of healthy choices available.  You just need to alter your what you put in your diet - NOT go on a diet.
http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

[BeerCan]

As I said the version for athletes is different

[JasonD]

Thanks for the whfoods link, Garry...

My question about "a good diet to match up with a daily riding program" was not geared toward anything specific like weight loss, etc. I was asking more about food guidelines, etc. Scooter mentioned the 5 - 6 smaller meals spread out - this falls in line with what I have read about in the "body for life" books. Their recommendations on portion sizing seem to be more geared toward a lifestyle of weight training and aerobic excercise for general fitness.

I'm looking for an eating plan that fits well with solid daily training that sees me actively burning 2,000 + calories a workout (not to mention all the calories burned throughout the day. If anything, I think I should be eating more food!

Here's my typical intake:
1 Bagel (butter only) and 2 cups of 1/2 caff coffee
Approx 350cal, 600g Sodium, 54g Carb, 12g Protein

During ride 1 trail bar
140 cal, 95g sodium, 24g carb, 3g protein

Post ride drink
166 cal, 29.7 MG sodium, 32.5g carb, 10g protein (also contains 3k mg glutamine for protein absorbtion sp?)

Meal
Usually protein & carb (i.e. chicken & pasta, beans & rice, leftover chinese  , etc.)
Approx 500 cal, 920g sodium, 112g carb, 20g protein (beans & rice as example)

Meal
Usually sandwich (PB&J as example)
Approx 460 cal, 415g sodium, 57g carb, 15g protein

Dinner
This varies quite a bit - last night was chicken and rice, two servings (I'll use beans & rice as example)
Approx 1000 cal, 1840g sodium, 224 carb, 40g protein

Total for day:
2616 Calories
3870.297g Sodium (just a note - I do not add salt to anything! this is just preservatives!)
503.5g Carbs
100g Protein

I also drink water and unsweet tea throughout the day.

I haven't kept a food log, but it might be something to consider if I get more serious about racing...

[JasonD]

Oh yeah - in my original post I said that I was trying for 2x carb to protein ratio. After really going through the labels, it looks like I'm closer to 5x carb:protein!

[Garry]

Looks like you're on the right track Jason.  Also you can boost the protein in that PB&J sandwich about 7 g by adding some sunflower kernels to it.

[Ken]

Garry you are a wealth of information!  This what I was looking for also when I suggested this type of threads. I eat alot of Turkey sandwiches with mustard only on whole whaet bread. How is that compared to PB&J sandwiches?

[Harvey]

3870.297g Sodium (just a note - I do not add salt to anything! this is just preservatives!)

Dude, that's a ton of sodium!!! Try more fresh foods and stay away from those preservatives. I know it's much more work/time to eat fresh vs. prepared foods, but it's well worth the effort as far as general health is concerned.

[Garry]

3870.297g Sodium (just a note - I do not add salt to anything! this is just preservatives!)

Dude, that's a ton of sodium!!! Try more fresh foods and stay away from those preservatives. I know it's much more work/time to eat fresh vs. prepared foods, but it's well worth the effort as far as general health is concerned.

Damn!  I don't know how I missed that!  It must be some sort of typo?  That much sodium would kill me.  I have salt intolerance and therefore have to always read labels.  Too much sodium in a mild case and I lose all balance.  Not good for biking!!  Although salt is good to replace as we sweat, too much has big health concerns. Prepare foods ahead of time and refrigerate; then you can easily feed off them with a busy schedule.  For an easy snack skin some new potatoes - coat in EV olive oil, lightly salt and pepper or any other favorite herbs, bake in the oven with aluminum foil until still mildly firm, sprinkle some mozzarella cheese, heat about 10 more minutes.  These can be refriged and eaten on the fly.  Also, way back I sent out an energy pancake recipe.  Good healthy stuff gives us energy to ride.

[Gregg]

  Good healthy stuff gives us energy to ride.

Amen to that!!! 

Since I fixed my diet just 2 months ago, I have lost 40 pounds. My energy level has increased ten fold, my riding has gotten better, faster, longer. It has spilled over to my entire life not just the biking, I am now going to the gym the days that I am not riding, doing cardio, and some circuit training. The increased excercise helps even more.

I feel great! I am not bragging, but I wanted to chime in and let you know that all I am doing is paying attention to everything that I put in my stomach.

I eat at least 5 times a day, I am never starving, I never eat more than it takes to make me feel full. Lots of fruits and veggies, plenty of protein. I keep track of every thing to make sure that I am eating a balanced diet. The key I think, is that this is not a "diet" so I am not going to go off of it at some point, this is just the way that I have decided to live.

[JasonD]

Yeah - I do try to pick out "low sodium" versions of foods if available, but I think the biggest offenders for my posted example are the bagels and the beans...

I usually mix in fresh fruit during the day, and Nancy has some killer chicken recipes that use fresh veggies.

Thanks for the guidance - I definitely need to be more on top of my weekly menu...

It looks like the consensus is:

5 - 6 Meals a day, smaller portions
Fresh food as much as possible
Avoid refined sugar & high fructose additives
7 - 24 grams of protein per meal
Limit Sodium - Limit Preservatives
Avoid overt / empty calories

With all this being said, for a 6'5" 215lb. generally healthy (although quite a bit salty  ) guy actively burning 2K + calories 5 days a week, how many calories / day should I be looking at? I'm not trying to lose weight, if anything, I want to build muscle in the areas that will help me cycling - legs, core, upper body. With the right food selection and portions, as Gregg mentioned, I'm not looking to set up a "diet" that I will go off - I hope to keep riding until I die.

Not to go off topic, but one of the main reasons I wanted to join the Swamp is to be around so many healthy people of all ages. Nancy and I did a group ride, and all the... errr... veteran riders? venerable riders? (read: old-timers  ) -- were showing us how we could still get out and mix it up as we grow older.

[scooter]

Well I am a little vertically challenged compared to you(who isn't )but at my height, weight, bone mass, water content etc: I need a daily intake of around 4000 calories to maintain my current studlyness You might look into one of the scales with the body fat analysis function as they give you all this feedback. While they are probably a little inaccurate, it provides more feedback for you to fine tune your program

[JasonD]

Scott - Thanks for the tip. I'm going to do some web research when i get a chance and see what I find... What should I google, "Scooter's Studlyness" 

[firebiker]

The only problem with the scales that tell you your body fat % is that they use the same principle as the BMI (Body Mass Index). The flaw that I don't like about that is that it doesn't account for muscle and bone.
An example: An athletic person that weighs 200 lbs and is 6 feet tall. His Body fat % is 8%. But according to the BMI index he is a 27 which is considered overweight.
 
An unathletic person weighing 180 lbs and is 6 feet tall. (Never excercises) His actual body fat % is 20%. According to the BMI he is a 24 which is considered normal weight.
The index was used by some Fire and police depts. to measure health for a while. But after several lawsuits they dropped the BMI. A friend of mine is a triathlete, he's very muscular and has less than 5% fat. But his BMI is almost 30. So he failed the department physical. Luckily he appealed and won.
Bottom line is to not take to much from the scales.
  

[scooter]

Yeah, some scales are better than others. The one I own allows me to use an athlete option, with it I am around 10% which matches a caliper test. With out inserting the athlete option I am in the 20's So while not perfect, it will allow you to establish a baseline for yourself and is another tool to help to get where you are going.

[JasonD]

So I found some info on nutrition intake - specifically dealing with calories (energy), carbohydrates (fuel), and hydration - and how much should be consumed and especially, when...

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/7570.0.html

and the follow-up article covers different food groups and some more "training diet" specifics:

http://www.velonews.com/train/articles/7632.0.html

[scooter]

Mmmmmmmmmm!!!! Icecream

[Harvey]

One must never exclude ice cream from one's diet.

[Ken]

If you like ice cream you might try Sherbet. For a 1/2 cup serving it has 100 calories, 1 gram fat, and 25 grams of carbs.

[Garry]

If you like ice cream you might try Sherbet. For a 1/2 cup serving it has 100 calories, 1 gram fat, and 25 grams of carbs.

I cut calories in other areas so that I can enjoy ice cream.  :-) 

[BeerCan]

you guys are getting me hungry